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Old May 13th, 2005, 08:46 PM   #1
Sabra
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Advocate of Women

I have always been an advocate of and for women. I have sat in my ivory tower saying women should.......well now being an indirect victim of domestic violence I am still an advocate, still saying what you should do but with a different perspective I think.

About six weeks ago, I watched what seemed to be a flash out of a film. Someone who I love very much was a victim of domestic violence while I watched. I was helpless to stop it, but I had a telephone and called 911. The creep was put in jail and charged with felony assault.

I think what has made me nuts is the response of both families. What did you do? It will be on his record. why did she call 911?

No one said, he was wrong, no one said, are you all right, no one said, god damn him, he's where he belongs. They said instead, It should be kept in the family.

What are we teaching our daughters? Our son? Is this right for anyone, regardless of your sexual preference to touch you without permission? Especially in anger?

I'm just so angry I can hardly stand it.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 12:07 PM   #2
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(((Sabra)))

First off, let me be the first to say that you did the right thing by calling 911. He DESERVES to be in jail!!! God, I wish you were around when my ex-husband (an abusive SOB) was around. Whenever I tried telling anyone, I'd frequently be asked what I'd done to make him hit me. If some stranger had come up and done the exact same thing, no one would ask me that stupid question. But when a spouse abuses you, the first thing that many people want to know is what you did wrong to cause this to happen. (The same response is frequently seen in reference to rape.)

You did the right thing, Sabra. I hope the victim lives in a place where there's a domestic violence shelter and/or program. Make sure they get help!!! Please!!!
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Old May 14th, 2005, 12:18 PM   #3
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Also, Sabra, check out the thread "Domestic Violence" several threads down in this "Violence Against Women" section. There are several resources that are listed, both the toll-free national D.V. number (post #1) and a list of resources (IIRC, posts #7 & 8). Please, have your loved one check them out. Not to mention asking the police and/or State's Attorney (or whoever's prosecuting the case) to keep your loved one informed for her/his own safety.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 02:08 PM   #4
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You know Sabra, their reaction doesn't surprise me. I doubt that was a one time incident and, if anyone watches COPS (okay I admit I do....sometimes), they will witness at least one domestic violence call a week that usually ends in the victim crying and forgiving the abuser, when the cuffs come out. They usually decide not to press charges and ....guess what will happen over and over again.

I would probably do just what you did and I'm sorry your concern was not appreciated. I'd be very angry too.

I'm not sure why people "choose" to be victims.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 08:08 PM   #5
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All this took place in Arizona and I got her out of there and back home to Ohio within two weeks. This was packing up an entire house, renting a truck and driving cross country.

Fortunately, Arizona has recently passed quite of few laws protecting women and children. For instance, once the police are called, it is taken completely out of the victim's hands. The state prosecutes and the charges can not be withdrawn by the victim. An order of protection, which is nationwide, was issued protecting Kathy, her daughter and me. This is good for a year and can and will be reinstated annually for as long as necessary. Under Arizona law, if he so much as gets into a shoving match with someone he'll go to jail for a year.

Arizona prosecutors also keep in contact with the victim and keeps them informed of everything.

He got a $500 fine, mandatory anger management classes, with direct order from the judge to not contact her in any way ever.

Divorce court is next and I hope she gets everything she asks for.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 08:18 PM   #6
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(((((((((Sabra))))))))) ((((((((( COD)))))) ((((( rhy)))))))))))),
COD, I don't think people choose to be victims... the response Sabra got is a response that comes though the ages.

Yes, we have DA centers for women and their families. However we are still in the dark ages with modes of thinking.

Until the victim gets recognition, realizes that the abuse is not their fault. That they didn't "ask" for it we will be stuck in the "dark ages".

Sometimes the victim is so used to being put down, physically, mentally, and verbally they don't know what the right thing to do is.. Their thinking is "he or she" will change. Maybe I did deserve it this time?

Sadly this is the mode of thinking for many. It's hard to break the mold of this thinking.

YES!!! We need more people out there advocating for the victim. Teaching them beginning in grade school that that type of behavior is no longer acceptable. That it won't be tolerated.
Until we get the message out there it will continue...

Sabra, You did the absolute right thing, Kudo's for you. Kudos for your friend who is getting help. Good luck to her. May the bum rot in jail.

Can't blame you for being angry. It made me angry when you told it in WS. Hopefully someday soon people will wake up and realize the danger of domestic abuse. Who gives a flying fig that the bum will have a record. He deserves it.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 09:00 PM   #7
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There are many <a href="http://www.womensweb.ca/violence/dv/leave.php" style="text-decoration: underline; color: red">reasons women stay in abusive relationships</a>. But not one of them is because they <i>want</i> to continue to be victims or because they actively <i>choose</i> to be.

Anyone who thinks that needs their head examined. Seriously.

Sabra, it's very likely the next year will be a difficult one for Kathy, as well as for you and Margot. If you wish, I recommend <a href="http://www.womensweb.ca/k2news/example1.php?Action=Full&NewsID=62" style="text-decoration: underline; color: red">this article</a> to help all three of you understand the myriad emotions that will surface during this transitional period. None is necessarily "right" or "wrong." Emotions simply are part of the healing process. Acknowledging them and honoring them is what's important.

My two cents.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 10:12 PM   #8
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Guess that "needs their head examined" was for me.

I misread your original post Sabra. I took it to mean even the victim of the abuse was angry that you reported this. Sorry. I'm so glad your friend got out of that relationship.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 11:28 PM   #9
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Geesh Cod, I didn't read your post that way. I thought you were speaking in generalities.

Thanks WA, I'll read the article.
All of you, I know I did the right thing. I'm glad the universe had me there, because if I hadn't been he very well might have killed her. He certainly made it plain he wanted to, telling her he was going to slit her ****** throat.

Kathy said he had become increasingly verbally abusive, but had never until this day laid a hand on her. Well it's the first and only time he will.
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Old May 15th, 2005, 09:30 AM   #10
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There was a reason you were there to witness that, Sabra. Not everyone would have the courage to do what they know they should. She's lucky to have a friend like you to support her.

I, of course, know that NO woman, man, or child wants to be a victim of abuse. My use of the word "choose" was put in quotes. My comment was a generality referring to women who are presented with a chance to get out and decline. I know there are a lot of reasons they choose to stay, but.....it's so hard to accept that choice.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 10:02 AM   #11
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((((Sabra)))) You did exactly the right thing and I am so glad that you were there in the right time at the right place. I left my ex the first time he hit me and have no regrets whatsoever. I did get the "what did you do to make him hit you" routine from a lot of people. At the time of the divorce, I didn't tell any of my family why I was divorcing him. Eventually I did tell my family. I guess the reason I didn't rat him out was that I knew that my family would blame me. Even though my mother now knows what happened, she told me last Christmas that she still thinks the ex is a wonderful person and misses him. Even though that was over 20 years ago, it still hurts me that she sides with the ex and blames me for the divorce.

I really wish I'd had you for an advocate back then!
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Old May 16th, 2005, 11:58 AM   #12
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You see, I just don't understand this attitude. My parents, apparently were way ahead of their time, teaching me no one has the right to touch me without my permission.

brede, did your mother say the divorce was your fault or are you reading something into her statement? I'm not siding with her, just curious.
The reason behind the question is we sometimes edit in our heads what someone says and misunderstand what exactly they mean. Then again, I don't know your mother.

Both her parents are siding with the abuser. I don't understand this either. Her mother is a mean, vicious, controlling, royal pain in the hiney. Her father follows her mother's lead. If she were my daughter, I'd be asking what I can do to help, not tear her down
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Old May 16th, 2005, 02:58 PM   #13
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Your description of her parents could easily describe mine. For some reason it was okay for my older brother to get divorced and he was the wronged one. For me, it was totally unacceptable for any reason. My mother blamed me from the beginning. She even wrote a letter to my then husband while we were separated telling him "the only thing you did wrong was to love her in the first place." My then husband, very soon to be ex, was delighted to show me the letter. Those words are burned into my brain. They are both sick puppies. No, that's not right, I don't want to insult sick puppies.

To this day, in front of my husband of almost 17 years, my mother talks about what a wonderful man the ex is. It would not surprise me if they kept in touch with each other. Does it still hurt? Yes, in a way, I'm actually more disgusted by it and feel sorry for any woman who lives her life by those narrow little rules. My mother is one of the saddest/angriest people that I know.

I got my independent spirit and ideas of right and wrong from the wrongful treatment I experienced as a child. Plus I had a grandfather who was very supportive and actually taught me how to physically fight back when I needed to. With the way my older brother treated me, knowing how to fight was an absolute necessity. We reached a point when he was 16 and I was 14 where we were the same size. I won a fight one day and that was the last time we spoke to each other for almost 30 years. I have no contact with him now. My mother thinks he walks on water.

Long ago, I accepted the fact that I would never be or do anything that pleased my mother. From that point on, I have been happy with my life and the choices that I have made. It hurts sometimes, but not for long. I have created my own new family and we treat each other with love, honesty and respect. I try not to dwell on the past and do the "what ifs" or "I wish" things.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 03:14 PM   #14
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{{{ brede }}}

You have amazing insight and fortitude, my friend.

I hope your words here will help others find the same inner strength and inner power.

Hats off to you!

And, {{{ Sabra }}}, if ever you are looking for a "surrogate daughter", you have my number. I'm happy to volunteer anytime for that job. Who wouldn't want to, with such a great "mom"?
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Old May 16th, 2005, 05:00 PM   #15
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I'm glad you got Kathy out of there, Sabra. I know the whole situation had to have been frightening for ou two. My prayers are with you...
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