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Old October 9th, 2012, 09:18 AM   #1
PriscillaMS
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No stones please, but I'm voting R, one reason why

I’m coming out of the closet, I’m voting Romney! One selfish reason why. (1) I don’t know about others, but my 401K portfolio has been pretty stagnant, no growth really, for the last 4-years. And with the price of gas, I have even less disposable income. (I refuse to defend the last President, but I bought gas for $1.85 on Election Day 2008.) So here’s my point. Assume you start your working life at 22-years of age and you plan retirement at age 62. Per the plan you have a 40-year time span to achieve a 401K savings that will permit a comfortable retirement life. Four years have now gone by with little, if any economic recovery. That’s 10% of your working life. Ouch. Now some of you will say, "But Bush was Satan and things were so bad nobody could have done better than this President". So you now say let’s all re-up for another 4-years! Not me,sorry. I’m unwilling to potentially loose 20% (8-years) of my savings and investment working life. After all, what is the "new" Obama plan? I heard nothing new in the debate. I didn’t hear a plan to even achieve a balanced budget. More windmills, solar panels, what exactly? Nope I cannot afford to waste another 4-years on hope and change, if it means voting for more slogans and without a clear plan. Romney has one, read the debate transcript. I mean wouldn’t we be better off if the billions we’ve invested in Solar energy would have been applied providing incentives to develop natural gas and hydrogen distribution infrastructure. The customer (market) would then be able to determine whether gasoline, hydrogen or natural gas would be the best answer to achieve a cleaner, more cost effective solution.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #2
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I think it's only fair that since you had the courage to come out of the closet I can do the same. LOL

I'm sorry, Priscilla, but I happen to disagree with you. Romney's “plan” is nothing more than an outline and a poor one at that. He put forth things that he'd like to see done that he wants people in his pocket for but he hasn't said were all this money is coming from or what government funded programs he's going to eliminate or anything of that nature. Oh sure, he's named some big ones that he'd like to reform, but reform doesn't mean less money. It has to be cut somewhere and so far I don't see where he's legitimately listed an effective way to put his “plan” into action. There is absolutely no physical way that he can possibly lower taxes and cut back on the amounts of tax credits and cuts for the middle class and then, in turn, not raise taxes for the upper class as well. It's impossible. You can't make the numbers work. You cannot possibly lower taxes for everybody, not raise taxes for anybody, and still have the income the government needs to survive to move forward. It's theoretically impossible.

But let's talk about what Romney wants to eliminate: health care at the government level, public television that helps millions of kids before a preschool age, reinstatement of “don't ask, don't tell”, any possibility of marriage equality, women's right to choose (next thing you know it'll be the right to vote). I don't know about you, but I don't want to go back. The feminist movement is not over by any means and I think that particular point would set us back…decades.

Look, I totally understand your concern for the lack of growth in your portfolio. But I think and I'm sure you know as well, there's so much more to consider than just that.

And as far as the Green initiative tax incentives and investments…I agree, I think Obama got a little overzealous with how much he put towards that initiative. But personally, I would prefer to see clean air and wind energy as opposed to coal, which Romney is suggesting.

I'm not throwing stones by any means, but I do happen to disagree with you. Romney is definitely not the candidate for me.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #3
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Thoughtful comments Synful. But you haven't convinced me. Theoretically impossible!
True a balanced budget is daunting and probably cannot be accomplished in the short term. Hey even after a 4-year Romney term (his plan) we will owe more than we do today. So far everyone, even Romney, is only talking about reductions in planned spending increases. But the growth of government must be slowed and Obama offers no plan to do it. Are you saying no plan is better than any incremental correction to these spending increases? Per Obama's own budget (budget plans that got not a single Democrat vote) we will add more than a trillion each and every year into the future. Currently we borrow forty cents of every dollar spent. Are you saying we should continue to fund Sesame Street with dollars borrowed from China? Time for big bird to leave the nest and stand on his own feet. LOL. (America is a giving country, I’m sure he’ll survive.)

Government health care, no thanks. With Obamacare we’re forced to buy a product and fined if we do not. Its goal is to cover 10 million more people without adding a single new doctor. It does fund however 16,000 new IRS collection agents. The law was helped written by a chairman who admitted she didn’t understand it and passed by a congress that didn’t read it. To boot congress exempted itself from it. The law was signed by a President who smokes and funded by a Treasury chief that didn’t pay his taxes. We are taxed 4 years before we receive any benefits and by a government that has already bankrupted both Social Security and Medicare. Financed by a broke country. Please reconsider your desire. Don’t be afraid of freedom of choice. The Ryan plan that allows people vouchers to shop for insurance is, I think, a better option. Competition is the only thing I know of that increases quality while reducing cost.

Wind energy? The chemical bonds in a single gallon of gasoline can propel a car weighing thousands of pounds, cruising at 2800-rpm for 30-miles or more while providing heat or air-conditioning. Wind energy is a pipe dream.

Thanks for playing Synful. All the best.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #4
Jennifer23
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Hi Priscilla and Syn. Priscilla, I'm breaking my own rule to talk a bit of politics with you, but my response won't be too long. And Syn, because we agree on almost everything, I guess that you knew I'd be on your side with this topic as well.
Obama inherited a mess. If McCain had been elected, how much more would he have been able to do? Ironically, I really liked the first McCain (a moderate Republican with good ideas), but I didn't like the born again second McCain who sold his soul to the right wing of the party.
While Romney served as Governor of Massachusetts that state ranked 47th in job growth. He talked about creating jobs, but his record shows something else. I don't trust him.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 08:05 AM   #5
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Jennifer and Synful, I really mean no offense. I just love to debate (HS debate team LOL) And Jennifer, I totally agree that it is difficult to trust any politician, egads! And Synful, I know the Republican Party isn't offering a panacea. But we can't keep borrowing at the rates we are now, it isn't sustainable and will do harm to us today and future generations. So I have become a single issue voter. Put everything else on the back burner until the budget problem is on a correction pathway. Obama promised to reduce the deficit by half and yet has added more debt than nearly all previous presidents combined. He also said he would reduce the partisan divide and yet passed the biggest health care bill in history without a single vote of approval from the opposition party, a historic first. So I have a trust issue as well.

Romney isn't the total answer and that is a fact. It will take multiple elections. But I feel certain the free enterprise market driven private sector and competition (Ryans ideas especially - he's my favorite) are a better action plan than the top-down, one size fits all, government driven directive approach.

I've read that if we took the entire assests of the so called "rich", the Federal Government would only be able to operate for about three months. We are now spending about $3.7 trillion a year. Tax the rich also "doesn't add up". Bill Gates, I believe, is a liberal and a philantropist. Yet I don't begrudge his a nickel of his wealth. It was his initiative and innovative software ideas that now helps employ thousands of people. Yep, free market for me.

I mean who gets hurt more in a slow economy with a lack of jobs and rising fuel costs?

(We may never be in agreement and we may end up voting differently but let's keep talking OK?)
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Old October 10th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #6
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Priscilla, Bill Gates is a personal hero for me. He DOES give back. I know that we won't be voting for the same guy, but I have friends that disagree with me on political issues and yet we've maintained our friendships. I put you there with my other friends.
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Old October 11th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #7
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I KNEW IT!!! I knew you had to have had some kind of formal debate training! Now I feel slightly dejected...I don't have formal training and politics is not my strong suit but....I loooove to argue.

You've done absolutely nothing to offend me. You're entitled to your opinion just as much as I am mine. In fact, you made me crack up on a couple of occasions.

So, I'll give it a go and try not to shame myself against a pro. However, it will have to wait until morning, for it's late and my brain is fried for the day.
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Old October 11th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #8
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Jennifer and Synful, I really appreciate your comments. And I want to continue to count you both as friends. (Jennifer please don't say you "know" we will be voting for different people. Keep watching the debates! Free enterprise and business is what will drive the economy, the Bill Gates model. Hey a rich person can only eat so much. And even if he buys a yacht, well workers have to first build the ship. We need as many Bill Gates' as we can get! And Synful, freedom of choice is scary really. Government health care control may sound good but people's needs change. A voucher system where we can select options from the private sector, to me, will encourage competion, increasing quality and lowering cost. At least this in my opinion offers more potential than a one size fits all government program. Synful yes, keep arguing with me. (SORRY, I COULDN'T HELP MYSELF - SOMEONE GET MY HUSBAND QUICK HE CAN SHUT ME UP!!!!!)

Anyway, please keep talking to me. I'm always willing to listen, I think. If you are well, than I am well. Priscilla
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Old October 11th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #9
Jennifer23
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Priscilla, I've known Syn for awhile now and after seeing her posts I realized that she was just as crazy as me! That's why we're such good friends. Although you're not as whacky as we are, both of us like you. Keep posting. Ooops . . . I didn't talk politics.
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Old October 15th, 2012, 12:18 PM   #10
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I'm not American but have been following closely what is going on in the run up to the elections. I'm not at all interested in "personalities" but in party manifestos.Call me naive but plans to cut spending in sections such as health, especially women's health, and education is intrinsically wrong! I also would be and am quite happy to live a more frugal life so that tax money could be used to support projects to benefit the population as a whole. Altruism is not a dirty word!
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Old October 15th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #11
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Who was it that said altruism is a dirty word?

Who is proposing a cut in health care or education spending?

No one is. I offer the same answer to both questions.

Regarding the second question, I do wish someone would propose that at the least the US government maintain the same budget for two consecutive years. As anyone with credit card experience will learn, you cannot eliminate debt by borrowing more each year. You will go bankrupt. And who gets hurt more, you the borrower or the lender. Similarly, if the US government were to default or elects to print money out of thin air, who is that will experience the most harms, the rich or the poor?

I have a question myself? Aside from competition (free enterprise) what is it that can both reduce cost and yet improve quality? The electronics industry is an example. Amazing improvements at lower costs. And you can choose what software you want and need!

Apply these same free enterprise principles to health care. Your choice, one size fits all government insurance or choice. It may be scary to some, this freedom of choice. But me, I’m all for it.

PS. Food for thought. Bad private sector business plans fail and then quickly go out of business. I can supply examples. Bad government programs virtually never are eliminated. And this results in waste and inefficiency. Once again who is harmed more by such waste, the rich or the poor?

PPS. Liked the soapbox. Oh and welcome back.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #12
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Well if there's going to be no cut in spending on either health or education, then let me put this question to you…who benefits with the plans that Romney's suggesting? Again it would have to be the middle upper class and the upper class who benefit, because those are the only classes who can afford to reap the benefits from a voucher system. Because let me tell you, Jane Doe, who lives down the street and is a single mother working a full-time and a part-time job and has three or four kids is in no way going to be able to afford the extra costs that she'll incur on the voucher system. And this is where that 47% comes in because almost half of Americans are in that same situation.

The earlier you all mentioned Bill Gates. I have absolutely nothing against Bill Gates or 120,000 families who are just like them in a high tax bracket. However, I don't think that should entitle them to pay any less of a percentage, than someone who makes less than 50,000 year, on their taxes. Are you honestly going to tell me that just because someone who makes millions of dollars every year has to pay the same amount in taxes than I do means that they'll spend less money. I find that highly unlikely. I can't conceivably believe that because they spend more money on one item than the middle-class spends on many that that produces more jobs. And even if it does I still don't find it fair that they should get tax break for that.

And the school voucher system?... Frankly, it's a joke. It only benefits those in big cities with multiple schools to choose from. If you start to grade schools like Romney wants to do, of course, everyone's going to want to send their kids the best school. Who wouldn't? But then what happens to the schools that are graded lower. Obviously they become worse because now they don't have the government funding that they did before because the student numbers of lower. And let's not forget that those schools who are graded well… are at the top, they only have so much room for students. So you tell me then, who decides who gets accepted to that school and who gets left out. I'll tell you who gets left out, the children who may not have the best grades and the children who come from low-income families. Because regardless of the voucher system. Those schools are still going to want parents who support the school…who have the money to support the school system and they aren't going to want to see their accumulative test scores go down because that will affect the grade of their school and how much money they have coming in. So it’s the same children, the low income family children, stuck with second rate education.

On another subject… How am I supposed to trust a man who during his election campaign changes his stance or uses generalizations instead of pinpointing exactly where he does stand just because the campaign is more winnable that way.

I agree, we need a balanced budget that the government should be forced to stick to with certain exceptions. And yes, I even agree that the only way to do that is to raise taxes for everyone and cut out programs like Medicaid and Medicare or at least drastically reform them. But I do not think the time to do that is when the economy is so low and when people rely heavily on those entitlements. I think first we need to get the economy rolling again and then talk about cutbacks on the big issues like Medicaid and Medicare.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:47 PM   #13
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Republicans are strongly opposed to marriage equality. This is a deal breaker for me
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Old October 17th, 2012, 01:53 AM   #14
Jennifer23
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Syn, although I agree with you, Priscilla is cutting back on her political posts and said that she wasn't going to post anything for awhile (kinda like what I said concerning the advertising). I PM'd her about that, and told her to keep posting. You're my best bud here, but Priscilla is a friend too. So . . .
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:58 AM   #15
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Well, that sucks...I was looking forward to hearing what she had to say, especially after such a heated debate from the candidates, tonight.
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